#that mobius changed him as a person just like jane changed thor

[doctor-mccoys-sanity]

Loki was talking about meeting Mobius and the TVA when he was talking about Thor and Earth right⁉️⁉️RIGHT GUYS⁉️

[cleabellanov]

"But Lokius isn't even canon! Stop making everything gay!"

...

The Loki series isn't just about romantic relationships and shouldn't be seen as so. However, there is a lot of subtext. Maybe this ship is not canon, but it was intended to be seen as so by the fans.

If Lokius isn't canon, then why were the last two shots of the series showing Mobius and Loki?

If Lokius isn't canon, why would there be so much touching and scenes so physically close to one another? (believe me I know they're friends. that just offers a solid base for something more)

If Lokius isn't canon, why is there an OFFICIAL track named like that?

Why is said track played or incorporated in different scenes of the series? like

-the first McDonalds meeting with Sylvie,

-the back-in-time conversation with Kang

- the ASCENSION to the throne?

Why is the Sylvie and Loki kiss never mentioned, by the producers, in the series per se, or even in the season 1 recap?

Why is Mobius the only one looking at Loki when he leaves down to the temporal loom?

And the other way around, why did Loki only make eye contact with Mobius in that scene?

Why is Mobius the only one to notice there is something wrong when Loki is still trying to fix the Loom?

Why did Mobius/Don on the original timeline, mention he's single, trust a complete stranger, invite him for a drink, AND offer to sell him a quite personal jet-ski?

Why did Loki, the LITERAL GOD OF MISCHIEF stutter and fix his hair and coat for no one else but Mobius (who by the way is just a jetski salesman on that timeline)?

Why is the timeslipping Loki had to go through directed to Mobius twice, him being the the only one he doesn't need a TemPad to "recruit"?

Why would Loki bring up Thor and Jane if it wasn't to mirror him and Mobius? (because, as he already was talking to Sylvie, he certainly wasn't implying it's about her. They were arguing, AND Mobius was implied in the conversation. Loki defended him in front of Sylvie, in case you forgot.)

Why would Mobius's voice be the one to echo back to Loki on his throne? let time pass time pass time pass

Why the RAINBOW?

WHY DID LOKI LOOK AT MOBIUS RIGHT BEFORE THE FAMOUS LINE "IT'S ABOUT WHO"? (important mention: Sylvie was behind him when he said that. why didn't he just turn around when saying it? nope, they know what they're doing)

Why is the shot cut to Mobi after Loki's "it was more about what I wanted" line?

Why the shot where 7 characters could've been showed (Mobius, Loki, Sylvie, B-15, Casey, O.B., Victor Timely) there are only 2: Mobius and Loki?

Why is Mobius the only one to tell Loki he can be someone good, and the first one Loki actually believes despite his tendency to do the other way around in the past?

Why does Mobius finally find insight, and reinvent his whole life at the TVA because Loki helped him do so? (they're not even the first Loki variant he faced, but something clicked this time)

Why does the bloody sleeve, representing Loki being hurt by Sylvie just because he "wore his heart on his sleeve" disappear on episode 2? (because he finally understands who he needs to be next to)

Why did Mobius risk his life on the first episode?

Why did Loki go to past Mobius for the final advice, not to the present one, not to Sylvie?

Why did Loki ultimately sacrifice his life for the ones he loves?

And why is Mobius left alone, with the door locked, after Loki leaves in the Loom's radiation?

Why would there be so much endearing looks, and smiles at each other, if not for a conscious acting choice?

Why why why why why if it isn't canon?

Nothing is for nothing. Especially in television, where everything counts from the light to the angles and the way the lines are spoken.

We don't need to see two characters kiss to know they are made for one another. In fact, I think implied canon is so much better for now, because it leaves free interpretation for the fans, and nothing to strike on for the haters.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that the ending is still tragic, although it holds its sweet from bittersweet. But remember: there aren't tragedies without love.

[loki-us]

Can the same parallel of Thor and Jane be made for Loki and Sylvie the way you are making for Loki and Mobius? I'm genuinely curious. Do you think the show in its writing and direction makes that parallel?

Didn't Sylvie change Loki the way Jane changed Thor? In his own words, made them soft.

(Ask is referencing this post about the parallel between the relationship of Thor/Jane and Loki/Mobius)

I think the way Tom and Owen play Loki and Mobius makes it very clear that the parallel is between them and not Loki and Sylvie. From the very first episode, Mobius is the only one who sees Loki differently, who sees him for who he really is and believes in his capacity for good. Before Loki even meets Sylvie, he spends time with Mobius in episode 2 and learns what it means to have a genuine friend who trusts you and doesn’t expect you to be anything besides yourself. Because everyone in Loki’s life had always based his worth on a throne, on his ability to be a worthy prince and live up to the image of Thor and Odin and then here comes this soft analyst who has seen everything Loki has ever done and says ‘you’re not a villain’ and ‘you could be anything you want to be, even someone good.’

The impact of having that one person believe in him is enough to allow Loki to realize that his worth isn’t tied to a throne and that trusting other people doesn’t have to make him vulnerable. With Sylvie, I think Loki was starting to learn what it meant to love himself, in the sense that he started feeling protectiveness and affection toward her and had no context for that feeling as someone who has always felt only shame and hatred for himself. However, Sylvie never transformed him like Mobius did. Sylvie was so blinded by her trauma and her need for revenge that she was literally incapable of trusting anybody. Loki says this to her in 1x6 and then Sylvie uses his feelings to manipulate him so she can achieve her own goal. Sylvie never truly cared about anyone besides herself, which is shown in season 2 when Loki has to constantly ask her to return to the TVA and only gets her to help once her own timeline is destroyed. Loki never stops trying to save the TVA, and it’s all because he knows Mobius was happy there and he wants his friends to be happy again.

Sylvie on the other hand is actively trying to stop him and they are constantly opposing each other the entire season. Note that after this line, when Loki says he wants his friends back, he is by definition referring to everyone besides Sylvie because they are the only two who know what really happened at this point and Sylvie made it clear she wants to be left in her timeline alone.

Finally, Loki explicitly references Mobius’ impact on him later in the episode, just before Mobius asks if Loki is really his friend. Loki makes it clear here that Mobius’ belief in him was something he had never even considered before, that the power of that belief had changed his entire perspective.

Loki and Sylvie never have anything close to this type of transformative relationship and the way that Mobius changed him directly inpsired his actions throughout the entirety of season 2. Through Mobius, Loki found people he could care about, he realized his self-worth, and he found the strength to sacrifice for others, all things that Sylvie never taught him. If you imagine taking either Mobius or Sylvie out of the equation, it’s clear that Loki’s growth and journey to his own glorious purpose was made possible by his relationship with Mobius and how he was changed by it.

[p4nishers]

oh god it really is about change, isn't it? all of it. loki met mobius and they LET themselves change bc they finally had someone who saw the good in them and trusted them with UNSHAKABLE certainty no matter fucking what even after they BETRAYED him even if he was angry for a while he never actually stopped believing in them and believing that they could be good or whatever they wanted to be. that they could change and be it for the better. "it's never too late to change" and loki did change, they become far more mature and grounded and caring and maybe even soft but with changing came the understanding that being soft isn't a bad thing. that loving someone isn't weakness. and mobius changed too, he learned to want things for himself and try to look beyond what he already has. they changed each other SO throughoutly and they've changed together and loki is seeing it, they're finally fucking seeing it, otherwise WHY else bring up thor and jane and love CHANGING people for the better. i think they're seeing their past thinking in sylvie and trying to show her that loving doesn't make you weak infact it makes you stronger and better and they know that because they HAVE found that love in mobius. mobius brought hope and kindness into their life and with that, completely changed them as person, just like jane did with thor.

[yourlakebed]

ok, I'm back with a fresh episode of "Queerbaiting Continues" (subscribe and follow for more)

so, to clear up that i get it right - what we're getting from Loki2 so far is this: creators are actively setting up Loki and Mobius (while still not confirming them to be canon) and not even trying to actually set up Loki with Sylvie (and not addressing the kiss even once throughout all four episodes).

okay then, I'm having some thoughts.

so i see everyone in the fandom analysing how well Loki understands Mobius' coping mechanisms earlier in the season that he decides to offer him some pie after Mobius had been in lots of stress. and that it's exactly what Mobius wants to do now, before Sylvie guts him and walks away with Loki following her.

but what i don't see enough (maybe it's just me idk) is the analysis of the "pie land" dialogue between Loki and Sylvie in ep.4

so right away Loki starts defending Mobius explaining that just because he's not acting insane like Sylvie does (like Loki did in the past) that doesn't mean he doesn't care. and he also points out that Sylvie is here not because she shares Loki's beliefs, but only because her plan failed.

but after that.. this is where the scene goes INSANE in my humble opinion: Loki turns the moral of the whole first "Thor" movie and "the main hero's journey to become the best versoin of himself" into huge metaphor of his own growth. growth that he achieved through the first season and continues on going that path. so what was that then, the thing that helped Thor to change so much? the thing that turned him from insufferable, angry, revengeful, arrogant child whose first impulse is to destroy anything that causes some kind of inconvenience?

love.

it was falling in love with Jane that made Thor revalue his morals and his behavior. and now Loki is standing before Sylvie telling her that not long time ago he mocked his brother for his "softness" thinking it to be a weakness. but now Loki understands Thor. so what is he saying with this? who was this person for Loki, that made him change and understand his brother? understand that the lack of desire to destroy is actually not a weakness. who was that?

Mobius.

it was Mobius that made him better as a person.

so, at this point, friends, i actually don't know what to think. because it's not even a classic example of queerbaiting anymore. that one was hidden very deeply under the surface and was caused by the state of the industry, which simply did not have the niche for the queer media and was profoundly scared to lose it's homophobic audience because they thought that it was practically not possible to make money on queer audience. this is not the case now. it looks a lot like creators do know what they're doing writing scenes like this one, which honestly makes it even worse than if they were simply oblivious.

[gabbytalksalot]

HELLO!!! WHAT DO YOU LIKE ABOUT LOKIUS <33

HIII <33

TBH WHEN THE FIRST SEASON CAME OUT AT FIRST I DIDNT LIKE LOKIUS THAT MUCH, BUT THEN I WATCHED IT OVER AGAIN, AND I LOVE HOW MOBIUS IN ALOT OF WAYS MAKES LOKI A BETTER PERSON.

I feel like the saying "to be loved is to be changed" really relates to them.

Like if you watch any of the movies with Loki before the Loki show, the character development is just so wild to me.

The way that Loki can change his ideals, belief, and his fixed mindset that all he wants is a throne to all he wants is friendship, love, and just like to be happy, I feel like only love can change you that way.

The fact he even compares himself to Jane and Thor as well!!!

Only love could make Loki act this way, and Mobius gave that to him.

And I love that for them 🙏🏽🙏🏽

[therese-lokidottir]

There's one thing that literally wromg on screen and it's very obvious, like there's no justifying at all but of course they trying justify it and it make showrunner look stupid and cruel

It's even mobius and loki first time in theater room and well it's lead mobius saying na d blame loki for frigga dead and say loki existence is nothing but for step stone

That is literally cruel and torture and showrunner specially Waldron had nerve calling it 'therapy ' and make loki 'look into mirrors' to realize his sins and mistake (loki literally know and understand his sins and mistake, he no need anyone and everyone rubbing it on his face). Seriously season 1 scenes it's filled with stupid and cruel scenes

Seriously what the f&*- wrong with Waldron, I know he didn't watching previous films but seriously? Every single his 'writing ' literally bad, boring and stupid. Waldron make joss wedon and Russo brothers look like the best writers and prosucers in world

Loki literally know and understand his sins and mistake

And the thing Loki does understand he did wrong. You see it on his face when the reality of the situation hits him.

So, here's the problem with Waldron entire premise. Everything about the show says he has no choice that he'll be killed along with his entire timeline if he choses to do good but then still places all the blame on him for doing wrong.

Mobius judgment and shaming is really twisted when you think about it because from Mobius perspective, what he fully and unquestionably believes is Loki is just acting out what is written for him. It's not his fault it's the timekeepers intent for things to happen that way. Either Loki has free will and could have choice differently or he has no free will and no one has the right to judge him.

Loki didn't kill Frigga, not just in the way others have explain there is no way take the stairs to the left where enough to lead the monster to the room place and Malakath already was there. But in the way this Loki never got to the point and with the tesseract, that moment probably never would have happened. The TVA killed Frigga, this version of Loki who onscreen family and home is gone because of the TVA.

Loki doesn't admit wrong because he doesn't want to buckle to Odin, someone who has done worse and refuses to admit wrong himself. It is a personal conflict at that point and Loki has never been confronted by someone he has wrong in a significant way.

Thor, Volstagg and Sif threaten to kill him, he doesn't object or defend himself. He gets it. Jane punches him, he's more amused. Again, no excuse to people he's wrong in some way, Loki accepts that hate. The family stuff is a conflict because his family also screwed up and he refuse to be the only one who admit wrong.

Peter lost his uncle because of his inaction. Tony suffered torture and say his own weapons used against the US and civilians. These are both inciting moments for them to be heroes, but it's not therapy and the people doing these things are the villains.

Again, what sense does it really make? Mobius: Hey, you're an evil loser only good for causing harm. Now help up catch a someone so we can go on unimpeded annihilating universes and killing people. It's not therapy it is in every way cult indoctrination because all it does is tear Loki down and say the only path forward is obeying the system that isolated him.

Like, Raganrok wasn't a particular good redemption arc either but what it shows is Loki doesn't need this. He doesn't have to have his mother death shown to him and collared and beaten to change. There can be other paths for him to be a hero. True, either is through torture and shame but TR at least it was about saving live and that was it. He saved Asgard he accepted Thor as king no objection. So, yeah, wasn't necessary for Loki to change he was always capable of saving lives and giving his to protect his loved ones

[bushs-world]

Loki's evolution (from bad to good)

Just thinking about the fact how Loki went from an antagonist and morally bad person in Thor to a genuinely good person in the series. His character growth in the series is always so special to me, seeing him shed all his villianous qualities and flaws, his selfishness and his total disregard to other people's safety and genuinely growing into a person who cares about lives lost and the damage and suffering caused to normal people.

In the movies, Loki always had a total disregard for innocent lives and was always willing to sacrifice a few people if it helped him or benefitted him. For him, other people and their lives were expendable and he was not scared to throw people into danger if it helped him get what he wanted. Sure, he didn't go around wanting to kill for fun but he was more than willing to push a few to their deaths for his own advantage.

In Thor, he unleashed frost giants in the weapons vault, without caring about the guards who died, unleashed the destroyer on Earth again without caring if humans got hurt and then tried to commit genocide. In Avengers, he unleashed a whole army of chitauri on New York and happily pulled out eyeballs. In TDW, he helped the Kurse even tho he knew people will be killed. In Ragnarok, he preferred staying in Sakaar than save the Asgardians from Hela n was willing to capture Thor for his benefit.

But in the series, we see Loki show real regard to innocent lives. He was ashamed of the deaths he caused in Avengers and admitted he didn't enjoy killing people. He was concerned about the people of Lamentis being left behind and only the wealthy getting in the ark. He was worried over the old woman who chose to stay behind, and was worried over the lies told to the TVA workers. Sure, he isn't a total hero who goes and rescues people but he shows empathy and regard to innocent lives put in danger rather than how he rarely cared in the movies. Then in episode 6, his only driving force when he's stopping Sylvie from killing HWR is that they might unleash something much worse. For a guy who was willing to burn everything for his own needs, it was heartwarming to see him care about the universe being in balance and wanting to take the right decision.

Another thing I love is how he showed remorse and guilt over his mistakes. In TDW, Loki doesn't feel any remorse or guilt for the lives lost on Earth. He goes on justifying his actions to both Frigga and Odin, thinking he was justified in his attack. Instead he kept pushing the blame on others or denying any responsibility by trying to use Odin's past as a shield. Its only when his mother died did he start to change.

In the series however, Loki is shown to be ashamed when Mobius shows him a recording of new york. He looks away in shame, he is sad when Mobius tells him he is born to cause pain and suffering. He's ashamed when Miss Minutes and HWR bring up the battle of New York. He even accepts to Mobius he doesn't like killing people.

He shows so much growth and development from the first episode itself but it's not until he meets Sylvie that he really starts to grow. The thing that makes Sylvie so great and inspiring for him is that she isn't bound by the same flaws and shortcomings like him. She isn't looking for power or validation, she is fighting against a fascist organisation and is trying to give people free will. She shows Loki he can be more than what the world thinks he can be and her presence inspires him to be better.

That's not to say that Sylvie doesn't have flaws of her own. She also has their issues, trauma and flaws to work through and funnily it's Loki who can reach out to her and help her out. That's what I love about sylki that they are perfectly balanced and compliment each other.

But the biggest growth imo is how loki addressed women. He really went from threatening assault on Jane and calling Natasha a mewling quim to addressing Ravonna as madam 🤣🤣🤣

[galaxythreads]

uh... a penny for your thoughts on TaserTricks?

from my Pinterest fic board

from my planning document:

----

Jokes aside, I'm pretty fond of the ship and have seen it work quite well. I've read quite a few tasertricks fics on ff.net, but none on a03, mostly because I was more into the ship when I was younger. I enjoy kicking around the idea and playing with the possibility of the pairing, but I have felt all excitement about shipping Loki with anyone drain from my very soul after the Loki series, hence why I haven't really done anything about it.

I guess I just like the set-up of the fics, where Loki, Darcy, Jane, and Thor are often plopped together into a space too small for four inhabitants, Loki and Thor are about 2 seconds away from actively stabbing each other at all times, and there's usually some sort of outside threat that forces Darcy and Loki to work together with their brains. Odin is a jerk. And if not that then the same thing but without Thor there. Idk. There's just something deeply comforting about the repetitiveness to me.

But as a pairing, I think that when Darcy, whose background is mostly a blank slate and her sole purpose in the movies is mostly to be Jane's Friend TM, is flushed out, I think that Darcy could be a good match for him. Given that I think that Loki enjoys verbal sparring--which she would do all the time--but also someone who would be supportive and a good listener. On the contrary, Darcy, who is from what we've seen, is usually pretty wild and I think a calmer partner would bring her a lot of peace, which is why I think they'd work together ~balance ~

Plus the two of them would never be against calling out BS in family situations, which would definitely help. Also Darcy is not an idiot, and Loki, I'm guessing, would be attracted to intelligence, so. Honestly I think if they weren't a couple, they would be really, really good friends.

This is why I don't think Sylvie/Loki or Mobius/Loki would work. they don't balance each other. Sylvie is constantly trying to kill/hurt someone, which means that Loki is always trying to mediate her emotions and she makes 0 effort to consider his, which would be draining. But it would be like this all the time. Sylvie hasn't been in a position where she's had to care about someone else's emotions since she was a very young child, and she needs someone who would constantly be smacking her metaphorically over the head about this in order to maintain a healthy bond. Loki wouldn't do this. He'd never be able to assert his needs or tell her no because she'd yell at him so he would be stuck in a cycle of exhaustion while she always won. Sylvie is an unintentional manipulator, I think, just because of her inexperience with people.

Mobius is an intentional one. Mobius on the other hand is never willing to take critique and does not want to help Loki grow as a person. He's so obsessed with the idea of Loki staying exactly as he is post A1 that he'll do almost anything to beat Loki down into that same place. Mobius does not know how to deal with a Loki who values themselves, nor does he want to. But because Mobius has no desire to help Loki evolve, or listen to Loki's needs even when he tells him directly, Loki would also never be happy or healthy inside of this relationship. Mobius is unwilling to change because he doesn't see anything wrong with what he's doing.

Darcy is different. She and Jane have maintained a friendship for years, she has a good relationship with Selvig and Jane, to the point that they move to a different country together. Darcy has been helping Jane with her post-Thor depression and encourages her dating. Darcy maintains a relationship with Ian, even if its mostly played for laughs by the movie. She may be a little socially awkward, but she is willing to help people, listen, and be supportive where she can. Once she and Loki became friends, I think that Darcy would be fiercely protective of him and help him grow and evolve in a healthy way and would be very proud of him.

---

actually, while I write this I am realizing that I do not often share my views on MCU ships because I don't tend to talk about it that often. I'm not really someone who is inside fandom to write about romance. It's usually pretty secondary to me. I honestly can't see myself writing a fic that's just about a pairing. There has to be something else going on than the "oh/oh" otherwise I get bored.

Tasertricks 8/10. will usually read the pairing. sometimes deeply annoyed by the way people write loki in the fics.

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

I just read this quote and I'm O_O

I mean I didn't expect this from Tom Hiddleston O_O Did they brainwashed him? This is so wrong on so many levels, I mean, what about Thor to say the least, and I feel so stupid in pointing out that Loki did trust and was emotionally invested in Thor, because, isn't it obvious? Isn't it the point of all the previous material?!

I'm speechless, really O_O

I may get a lot of flack for this but... it doesn't surprise me coming from him. I know most fans love him (I honestly don't care about him at all) but I don't think he understands psychology all that well, I mean he said this a while ago which is completely wrong on so many levels.

To claim Loki "trusts" Mobius may not be that far off the mark but he needs to mention that trust comes from his desperate need to be seen, to have someone paying attention to him, and he's so eager for that validation that he will put up with anything, emotional abuse, lies, betrayals... Mobius is not good for him, he doesn't treat him well, and he uses him for his advantage.

Does Mobius trust him? Was it trust what we saw in ep4 when instead of sitting Loki down and talking to him he put him in a time loop so he would be beaten and humiliated repeatedly? Was it trust when he lied to him and blamed him for Frigga's murder? Was it trust when during that damn hug in ep5 he still never told Loki that he had lied to him about it?

What does Loki's trust for Mobius bring him in the end? More pain, that's what. He trusts his words when Mobius insults him, when he tells him what his fate is, when he calls him a cockroach and a narcissist. He believes all that just like he believes the various moments in which Mobius "love bombs" him (something that's textbook abuse by the way).

This quote reminds me of the people who claim if Loki loves someone it means that someone is good. What kind of idiotic bullshit is that? An abuse victim loves their abuser and that makes the abuser a good person? Are we going mad now?

He keeps framing their relationship as healthy (in another interview he said Mobius shows affection and compassion to Loki. No, really, he said that) by talking about Loki's needs and wants but he always fails to mention why, why he puts up with the mistreatment, why he doesn't fight the way they talk to him or treat him, why he thinks he deserves it.

It's so miserable to paint this as healthy. About as much as Disney framing a scapegoat as a narcissist. Of course Loki felt emotionally invested in people before, in his family, in Jane, in the rest of the universe, this is nothing new.

Perhaps what they really mean to say is Loki deserves the punishment and him loving those who abuse him means he's 'growing' and 'learning', ie changing. Because what he is isn't good, he needs to change. Ugh.

[mimisempai]

You make me feel so proud of loving you

Summary:

A summer party on Midgard in the avengers compound is an opportunity for Mobius to get to know some of the people who are or have been part of Loki's life, and to get a little bit drunk on the punch, it is also an opportunity for Loki to boast about the qualities of his lover.

Someone asked me for some more Mobius drunk, and I was dreaming of reproducing the scene from Ultron where Tony and Thor brag about Jane and Pepper's prowess by adding Loki bragging about Mobius. So here I am with this story. I hope you will enjoy it as much as I had fun writing it.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/33273142

1185 words - Rating G

Mobius, overwhelmed by the afternoon heat, poured himself a second glass of punch and leaned back in the shade of a tree, watching the various people present.

"Is this your first time at a gathering like this?"

Mobius turned to the person who had just arrived, a bottle in hand.

"It's that obvious?...uh...Valkyrie is it?"

The young woman nodded before replying, "And you're Mobius, right?"

"Oh I'm already known?" replied Mobius with a snicker.

"Oh yeah, I think everyone has heard of you because Loki and Thor keep saying, Mobius this, Mobius that..."

Mobius blushed slightly, embarrassed by the behavior of his lover and Thor.

Valkyrie, amused, continued, "When Thor told me that his little brother was coming to Stark's little party with his mate, I don't know what surprised me more, that Loki was still alive or that he was bringing someone."

Mobius laughed lightly before saying, "Indeed, I suppose it may have been surprising.."

The young woman continued, "Well after the explanation of the timelines concept and the TVA, it makes more sense, it's not the Loki I fought alongside on Asgard, but there is a lot of him in this Loki."  She paused to take a sip and then continued, "Now there's a light in him that there wasn't before. And I think you have something to do with it." She looked at Mobius with her discerning eyes, a glint of understanding in her eyes.

Mobius didn't know quite what to say in response and simply said, "Thank you."

"Well come on, enough sentiment, let's get another drink!"

Valkyrie took him by the neck and led him towards the bar, where she took a bottle of beer and poured Mobius a glass of ponch before leaving him there and walking away with a slightly unsteady step, probably because of her drunken state.

Mobius smiled and resumed his observation. He noted that a group had formed, Thor, Loki, Tony Stark and Bucky Barnes. The discussion looked lively, it seemed that the four men were challenging each other, in a friendly way, but one could feel a slight tension.

"Aha, they're going to do it again! Maria can't help herself since the first time."

Rhodey, who had been introduced to Mobius as Tony Stark's best friend and also War Machine had just joined him, also with a glass of punch in hand. Mobius saw that Maria had indeed approached the small group of men, but didn't understand what Rhodey was getting at.

"What are you talking about?"

"It started a few years ago, just before the events with Ultron, if that tells you anything."

Mobius nodded, of course he had not been there, but he knew the story. From the moment Thor had invited them to this party, he had made it his duty to find out about all the events concerning the Avengers, not just the ones where his lover was involved.

Rhodey continued, "Maria Hill and I witnessed a kind of male warfare comparing the qualities of their respective mates. It all started when Maria just asked about Peppers and Jane. Tony had argued that Pepper was excellent, Thor that Jane was smart etc... So now that the four of them are together, I can only imagine Tony being with Steve, let alone Bucky..."

"Who is Barnes with?" asked Mobius, curious.

"With Sam Wilson, the new Captain America."

Rhodey laughed and nudged Mobius, "do you feel like listening?"

Mobius was now genuinely curious and could not resist the invitation.

They approached the small group, so that they could hear them, but so that they would not be noticed.

They didn't have long to wait as Maria asked, "So gentlemen, how are your ladies and gentlemen?"

Thor naturally got the ball rolling, "Jane has received her Nobel Prize in astrophysics and is on a conference tour around the world."Tony replied matter-of-factly, "Steve may not be captain america anymore, but as an international consultant to the military he is in high demand and couldn't make it today."

Bucky with a defiant and above all extremely proud look continued, "Sam, as Captain America has a lot on his plate and is today in conference with several presidents of different countries."

Mobius, knowing it was probably Loki's turn to speak, closed his eyes in anticipation of what was to come.

"Mobius is worthy of Mjolnir and can lift it!"

Mobius shook his head and Rhodey stifled a laugh as Tony cried out, "Steve too! He can even lift Stormbreaker!"

Thor replied, "In fact Jane is even going on an intergalactic tour as her skills are so well known."

"According to the press, Sam is a new Captain America who is going to change the face of the world, plus the way his armor shows off his b- hmph..."

Mobius looked up, Bucky had just been interrupted by Captain America himself who was looking at him rather murderously, his hand over his lover's mouth. However, Mobius saw that Sam was also having trouble hiding his amusement.

"But Sam... it's true that..."

"Bucky... shut up!"

Mobius figured the interruption was perfect, they would probably change the subject and Loki would have nothing more to say.

"I just wanted to add one more thing."

He should have suspected that Loki was incapable of keeping his mouth shut.

"Mobius is crazy about me... that's an amazing achievement right?"

As Mobius blushed strongly for the very first time in his life, he felt all eyes turn to him under a stunned silence.

He drank his glass of punch in one gulp to give himself composure, as Thor exclaimed, "Let's toast to love!"

As everyone toasted, drank and laughed, Mobius suddenly felt light-headed, realizing he shouldn't have drunk so much punch so quickly.

"Hey, you okay?" asked Rhodey.

"I think... I... I drank too much."

He found himself suddenly sustained as Loki's voice rang out, "I'll take care of him James. Thanks."

He vaguely heard Rhodey nod and felt himself being pulled a little apart, into a shaded area.

"Come on love, sit down and drink this."

Loki sat him down at the foot of a tree and went to sit next to him, handing him a glass of water.

Mobius complied obediently before resting his head on Loki's shoulder.

Then he said, "You know, you should stop being mean, Sweetheart."

"Huh?"

Mobius, despite the haze of alcohol, felt Loki tense up beside him.

"You should stop being mea-mean to the man I love."

"I'm repeating: huh?"

Mobius, wavering, turned to Loki and took his head in his hands, as if to focus his gaze on him, "You were mean to you.  You-you said it was an amazing achievement that I was crazy about you. It's not."

"Oh?" Loki's eyes reflected puzzlement.

"Yes... because it's no achievement to love you. There's nothing easier than loving you."

All the haze of all the alcohol in the world could not have prevented Mobius from seeing in Loki's eyes the joy that his words made him feel.

After that, it was no longer the alcohol that increased his drunkenness, but Loki's kisses.

__________

Series of Oneshot : Together, for all time, always

As always, bear with me as it is not beta'd and english is not my native language I hope you enjoyed it nonetheless🥰

[discoscoob]

do people watch the Loki show to understand Loki?

- he exists in a place where their no free will so course makes sense want to take the person down until meets Kang when possibly a war and millions may die.

- Loki always had a hero waiting to come out of him as we seen in his development in the films despite his self serving personality etc.

- why he suddenly choose the quiet life? err because he has tried to in the past and always failed and maybe cause deep down it not really what he wants like Coulson said about him lacking Conviction is which why would not win. Thor saying he could be more about life and growth and changing, thor always tried reach out/had hope for Loki, Loki love for Thor changes him but not fully or he reverts back to his old habits/self.

- Mobius shows him his life and how his failed and his mum's death which he blame himself for cause of his desire for revenge/jealousy etc and he then dies brutally at hands of Thano's. which i think would shock anyone into wanting to change/become better

- He not just friends with Mobius and Sylvie which this two do hold up a mirror for him who he is/could be but also spends time with other variants of himself, and sees his worst personality traits which himself acknowledging is annoying and shaking his head at and through other versions of himself see how miserable and lonely they are and doesn't want that anymore so knows has to change or just go round in circle

- his biggest fear is being alone so knows if carries on the way he is his destiny will always be that he will end up alone or causing death etc and even sees how other versions of himself are alone and miserable e.g Sylvie, Classic Loki and kid Loki and see his worst personality traits through- president Loki, boastful Loki and maybe Sylvie too least when they first met.

- sure he could go for powerful/self serving option again but knows that option is not really going to work out for him, he has little choice but accept life how it is, if could go back to his timeline again he probably would though. but he has accept this life and has made genuine relationships which deep down his really wanted and the self serving was his way for compensating for not feeling like he had love.

but we see all this but not convincing enough apparently for Loki to want to change imo imo Ragnarok was about his home which makes sense but not the whole universe. Loki is not always self serving he does have some genuine moments e.g revenge for Frigga, saving Thor, saving Jane etc until he reverts back to self serving but now see his trying to change and not revert back to his old ways.

people say he changed for Sylvie and Mobius but i believe it because he really got to access who he in order to fully change but i think he can still have his fun personality but i feel the series is delving into who Loki is and that why he more vulnerable etc.

I couldn’t agree more. I also feel like this is Tom’s characterisation because whenever he talked about him, he is always expressing his deep understanding of the character and I know the movies mostly showed his exterior and the facade he puts up to protect himself but I feel like Tom has always wanted to crack into that to show his more softer and vulnerable centre. I love that they did that. I know they stripped him down a lot in the series, but now he has the opportunity to rebuild himself but into a stronger and better person, he can still retain the qualities we love about him but he just had to be bare for a moment and I think that’s okay. I’m excited to see what will become of him moving forward.

[loki-us]

Are you dense or something?? Why are you acting like Loki learnt affection from Mobius like????saving Jane and all? Loki had been overly and openly affectionate with Thor for all his life and it only became weird from Thor 1 all the creators and actors have been very vocal about it, he cared about thors friends and protected their lives. Y'all really weird and just want to make everything about your ship when it's not.

I completely agree that deep down Loki has always had empathy and affection for Thor and those he cares about! I made a post on that here where Loki risks his life to save Jane and I mentioned some of that in the tags. I think Mobius’ impact on Loki was to give him freedom—to allow Loki to express his feelings, to show his affection, to be vulnerable and open in ways that he had previously only been taught were weaknesses. In 2x4, Loki talks about how Thor had been changed by Jane and how, at the time, Loki mocked him for becoming ‘weak.’ Because that’s what Loki had learned from Odin. He learned that he would only be worthy, he would only be good enough if he could achieve the throne, if he was seen as powerful and strong by others. When Loki tried to please his father by getting rid of their sworn enemies, it still wasn’t enough for Odin and Loki was cast aside for it. I think Loki never really knew how to express his affection and care in a way that wouldn’t lead to him being abandoned or looked down upon. Loki was taught that the only way to become powerful and worthy was to show no vulnerability, as he says in 1x1, the “elaborate trick” to inspire fear and control. He had absolutely no examples of how to show affection and still be respected for it.

Then when Mobius came along, he truly showed Loki how to trust and be open with another person, to show vulnerability and affection in a healthy and supportive way. Mobius told Loki ‘I see who you pretend to be but I know what parts of yourself you’re hiding and therefore I know you can be good.’ Mobius showed Loki that he didn’t need a throne to be worthy, he doesn’t need to pretend not to care to get others to look up to him, he can be gentle and he can trust others and those people will trust him back. Besides Loki’s mother, I think Mobius was the first person that believed in Loki’s goodness and gave him that freedom to express who he really is. Thor said multiple times that Loki could be better, could be more, but I don’t think even Thor ever really expected Loki to change. I think Loki’s interactions with Mobius gave him that freedom he never had to become gentler and more open throughout the series than he had a chance to be in the movies.

It’s true that I don’t think Mobius taught Loki how to care about people, I think Mobius was ultimately the first person that allowed Loki to just be, to express his trust and friendship without any expectations or judgement. Mobius transformed Loki’s views on how much someone is allowed to show of themselves and still be respected. Mobius said ‘you can trust me, you can be yourself, you can show me gentleness, and I will never mock you for it.’ I just don’t think Loki ever had anyone like that before and he never learned how to express his care before he met Mobius. Even if you don’t think they have romantic feelings for each other, Mobius clearly had a transformative impact on Loki’s sense of self, which Loki displays in his affection toward Mobius and interactions with other characters going forward.

[9worldstales]

MCU Loki: Is character development what we see in episode 1 or not?

I’ve discovered there’s a debate if what happened to Loki in episode 1 can constitute character development or not so I felt like sharing my two cents about it.

So, character development.

Character development IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE refers to the changes a character undergoes over the course of a story as a result of their experiences (positive or negative) and actions (successful or unsuccessful). Change can be positive or negative as the character can improve himself but also can sink into an abyss of depravity. It’s worth to remark changes is not necessarily always triggered by something they did, it can very well be something that happened to them that caused them to change… but the point of character development, IN THIS CASE, is that there has to be a change in the character. He can’t remain the same.

So… I’ll pick Tony Stark because his situation in “Iron Man” presented plenty of parallelisms with Loki in “Loki” and not just because some like to consider Tony too a narcissist.

So, same as how Loki was taken captive by the TVA, Tony Stark too was taken captive by the Ten Rings. For three months. There Tony is forced to see how the weapons he produced were used by terrorists to kill other Americans and who called him “the most famous mass murderer in the history of America” and were honoured to have him in their hideout. They originally were meant to kill him but since they realized he could be of some use to them, they’re willing to keep him alive because they want his help, not to search a Tony Variant but to produce more weapons. Tony though, understands once they have finished using him, they would dispose of him. Tony also has the major problem of being told to have only a week of life due to the wounds he suffered.

In this part of the story Tony is just a victim, he doesn’t really get to do something, negative things are merely poured onto him.

It parallels what happens to Loki for most of episode 1.

He’s beaten, taken captive, informed he’ll be killed, his execution is postponed because they decided he could be of use, he’s told he’s a murderer, a liberator of eyeballs who wasn't born to be king but to cause pain and suffering and death, all so that others can achieve their best versions of themselves. He’s also told he caused his mother’s death. And, all right, Mobius won’t immediately tell him what he wants him for, but it’s pretty clear he wants him for something.

So, back to Tony, when we have his character growth? When he reacts to all that was poured on him and react not just by fighting back in a typical Tony style (using his brain to create something that would allow him to fight the Ten Rings and escape) but also by changing things. Once he’s back home Tony announces he won’t produce anymore weapons.

The man who said...

Tony: Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both? With that in mind, I humbly present the crown jewel of Stark Industries' Freedom Line. It's the first missile system to incorporate our proprietary repulsor technology. They say the best weapon is one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it. That's how America does it. And it's worked out pretty well so far.

...becomes the man who say...

Tony: I never got to say goodbye to Dad. I never got to say goodbye to my father. There are questions that I would have asked him. I would have asked him how he felt about what this company did. If he was conflicted, if he ever had doubts. Or maybe he was every inch the man we all remember from the newsreels. I saw young Americans killed by the very weapons I created to defend them and protect them. And I saw that I had become part of a system that is comfortable with zero accountability. I had my eyes opened. I came to realize that I have more to offer this world than just making things that blow up. And that is why, effective immediately, I am shutting down the weapons manufacturing division of Stark International until such a time as I can decide what the future of the company will be.

This evolution makes sense. It feels believable. Why is that?

Let’s go back to Tony Stark.

Tony stark didn’t mean to be ‘the most famous mass murderer in the history of America’, he was sure his work was protecting people, he didn’t realize it was used by the bad guys, likely because he just accepted his legacy of son of Howard Stark and didn’t bother to think at it any further.

When he discovers things aren’t how he assumed, after a moment of discomfort in which Yinsen had to motivate him...

Yinsen: I'm sure they're looking for you, Stark. But they will never find you in these mountains. Look, what you just saw, that is your legacy, Stark. Your life's work, in the hands of those murderers. Is that how you want to go out? Is this the last act of defiance of the great Tony Stark? Or are you going to do something about it? Tony: Why should I do anything? They're going to kill me, you, either way. And if they don't, I'll probably be dead in a week. Yinsen: Well, then, this is a very important week for you, isn't it?

...he started fighting to change them. It fits with Tony’s personality, it makes narrative sense, it’s well presented, it’s believable on a psychological standpoint (yes, a person like Tony Stark would do this) and from an empathic standpoint (yes, if I were in Tony Stark’s place I would do the same).

When Tony gives his speech in which he shows he has changed, he surprises the people who have no idea what he went through, but not the viewers. For the viewers his reaction is perfectly believable.

So why, for a part of the fandom, what happens to Loki doesn’t feel equally believable since his experience parallels Tony? Why part of the fandom feels there was no character growth at all?

Well, I can’t answer for everyone, everyone probably has his own reasons but merely by keeping up the comparison with what happened to Tony Stark we see how the thing doesn’t work the same.

A premise here, I know there will be people tempted to think Mobius is the stand in for Yinsen because Mobius is likable and, ultimately, he’ll become Loki’s friend.

He’s not.

Yinsen was held captive by the Ten Rings, his life in danger same as Tony. There’s a moment in which they even threaten him and Tony has to stand in to save Yinsen’s life.

Mobius, as far as Mobius and Loki know, is not another prisoner of the TVA, he’s there willingly. Yes, he’s operating under the false belief he has been created by the TVA but he’s not aware of it. In that moment, as far as Mobius is involved, he’s a willing operative of the TVA, someone in with authority, in control of Loki’s life...

Mobius: Mmm... Luckily, he believes in himself enough for the both of us. And, hey, if it doesn't work, I'll delete him myself. He's really arrogant.

...and the TVA is his purpose, his life and he believes it to be real.

Mobius: It's exactly the same thing. Because if you think too hard about where any of us came from, who we truly are, it sounds kinda ridiculous. Existence is chaos. Nothing makes any sense, so we try to make some sense of it. And I'm just lucky that the chaos I emerged into gave me all this... My own glorious purpose. Cause the TVA is my life. And it's real because I believe it's real.

He doesn’t feel threatened by the TVA, coerced. He’s doing what he does because he believes he’s playing the good guy.

Mobius: All that time, I really believed we were the good guys.

So no, Mobius here is not the equivalent of Yinsen, he’s the equivalent of Abu Bakaar, the guy who tells Tony he’s ‘the most famous mass murderer in the history of America’ and wants to persuade him to cooperate with the Ten Rings, in the same way Mobius wants to persuade Loki to cooperate with the TVA. Keep this in mind because it’s relevant and easy to forger since we know how things will develop in other episodes.

And okay, now let’s go back on track.

Let’s talk of the motives that caused the change in Tony Stark.

Tony is shown by Abu Bakaar something he previously wasn’t aware of, how his weapons are used to kill Americans, that, by building them, he became an accomplice in killing Americans, which was something he didn’t want, hence the change.

Loki is shown… the events of “The Avengers” which he was aware of and which, of course, doesn’t impress him much…

Loki: No. And I remember. I was there. Anything else?

…as the show didn’t play the card of the sceptre influencing him as they say in the official web. Mobius doesn’t tell Loki ‘you did this but you weren’t in control of yourself, you were manipulated by the sceptre’ no, Mobius tells him ‘you did this’ and Loki’s answer is basically ‘yeah, I know, so? Why should I care?’

So Mobius moves to the events of “Thor: The Dark World” and, more specifically, to how Loki ‘caused’ Frigga’s death.

This is something that, in theory, can work as equivalent of Tony Stark being told his weapons are used by the Ten Rings to kill Americans. Loki clearly didn’t want any harm to befall on Frigga, whom he loved dearly. We know that in “Thor: The Dark World” he sufferd a lot for her death, blamed himself and changed (or better, in the authors’ original intentions, he mostly reversed back to how he was before “Thor” but this is a topic for another meta).

For who doesn’t remember the movie in “Thor: The Dark World” after Frigga’s death Loki:

- agreed to help Thor

- brought him and Jane to Svartalfheim

- put up a show for Malekith according to Thor’s plan without betraying Thor

- protected Jane TWICE, the last time risking his own life to save hers

- stopped the Kurse from killing Thor by stabbing and killing him and, in the original plan for the movie, he was also meant to die doing so. Even if you go by the ending the movie ultimately had, Loki has protected a human, cooperated with saving the universe from the Dark Elves and saved his brother’s life instead than letting Thor get killed.

It’s quite a change from how he was in “The Avengers”.

Then great, we’ve something that could push him to change, right?

Wrong.

For start because what Mobius says had happen to Frigga in truth hadn’t happened yet and wouldn’t have happened to THIS LOKI as he wasn’t carried back on Asgard because he escaped with the Tesseract. THIS LOKI has escaped and so wouldn’t end up captive on Asgard, wouldn’t be jailed and wouldn’t be there when the Kurse would intrude in Asgard’s prisons so there’s no way he can do something that would lead to Frigga’s death. Problem solved.

We continue with the fact that Mobius can’t prove to Loki this would have happened had Loki been carried on Asgard. Let’s forget how the version of what happened he gave to Loki is wrong and misleading. Even if he’d been absolutely truthful, what he does is to show Loki a video... but how can he prove this is the future that was meant to happen and not a lie he’s telling him in order to manipulate him? Tony saw his own weapons being in the hands of the Ten Rings, one of them exploded in front of him, wounding him, he disassembled some of the others, he’s sure the Ten Rings has them. But how can Loki be sure what Mobius is telling him is true and not just an illusion? A lie?

But whatever, the series tries hard to sell us through Loki’s reaction that he believed Mobius’ words about this being true because he totally loses his cool at that scene. So, okay Loki believes so will this change him the way it changed him in “Thor: The Dark World”?

Nope.

Tony changes because he does something to actively prevent Americans from being killed by his weapons, he shuts down their production and he involves himself personally in the fight against terrorists with a weapon only he controls, the Iron Man suit.

What does Loki do to prevent Frigga’s death?

Nothing.

His attempt at escaping might have been made more urgent by this piece of info but was something Loki had tried to do from when he’s been taken to the TVA… and in the following episodes Frigga’s fate will be completely forgotten, as if Loki has stopped worrying about it entirely. When talking with Sylvie about Frigga in episode 3 he doesn’t use it as a motive to explain why he wants to gain control of the TVA, to change his mother’s fate… nor it’s something that inspire him to fight the TVA, because that role belongs to Sylvie and Sylvie only. When he’ll try to persuade the other Loki Variants to help him, again he won’t mention Frigga, just Sylvie. Frigga won’t get mentioned not even when Loki will reach The Citadel at the End of Time and Miss Minute will try to tempt him. She’ll offer him glorious power and Sylvie, nor her nor Loki will try to bargain for his mother’s life instead. No, from episode 2 onward what Loki learnt in episode 1 goes forgotten, so let’s focus solely on episode 1.

Some believe Loki in episode 1 changed because he admitted he didn’t like to hurt people, that he’s a villain and helped to cooperate with Mobius.

Mobius: Loki? Nowhere left to run. Loki: I can't go back, can I? Back to my timeline. I don't enjoy hurting people. I... I don't enjoy it. I do it because I have to, because I've had to. Mobius: Okay, explain that to me. Loki: Because it's part of the illusion. It's the cruel, elaborate trick conjured by the weak to inspire fear. Mobius: A desperate play for control. You do know yourself. Loki: A villain. Mobius: That's not how I see it. You try to use that? Loki: Oh, several times. Even an Infinity Stone is useless here. The TVA is formidable. Mobius: That's been my experience. Listen, I can't offer you salvation, but maybe I can offer you something better. A fugitive Variant's been killing our Minutemen. Loki: And you need the God of Mischief to help you stop him? Mobius: That's right. Loki: Why me? Mobius: The Variant we're hunting is... you.

Only… this doesn’t really work.

Why?

Loki has tried escaping and has been forced to realize he can’t, that’s why he cooperates, that’s why he gives Mobius an answer to what he asked for...

Mobius: Do you enjoy hurting people? Making them feel small? Making them feel afraid?

... why he agrees with his accusations...

Loki: I know what I am. Mobius: A murderer? Loki: A liberator. Mobius: Of eyeballs, maybe.

...and ultimately accepts to work for the TVA.

This parallels Tony refusing to build armies for the Ten Rings, being tortured and, ultimately agreeing to build weapon for them, at least verbally. And let’s remember if it wasn’t for Yinsen’s words Tony might have given up. It’s Yinsen who encouraged him to fight back.

Yinsen: I'm sure they're looking for you, Stark. But they will never find you in these mountains. Look, what you just saw, that is your legacy, Stark. Your life's work, in the hands of those murderers. Is that how you want to go out? Is this the last act of defiance of the great Tony Stark? Or are you going to do something about it? Tony: Why should I do anything? They're going to kill me, you, either way. And if they don't, I'll probably be dead in a week. Yinsen: Well, then, this is a very important week for you, isn't it?

So this doesn’t constitute Loki changing, just accepting he’s powerless against the TVA and must play along with them. Playing along with someone isn’t something new for Loki, the episode even lampshades it.

Mobius: Well, let's start with a little cooperation. Loki: Not my forte. Mobius: Really? Even when you're wooing someone powerful you intend to betray? Come on.

So no, him being forced to accept the TVA is powerful and therefore deciding to cooperate with them is not a change. This series sets it as a normal Loki behaviour… as well as the fact it’ll immediately turn out he intends to betray them.

Loki: Very nice. I mean, it is adorable that you think you could possibly manipulate me. I'm ten steps ahead of you. I've been playing a game of my own all along. Mobius: What, charm your way in front of the Time-Keepers, hustle them, and seize control of the TVA? Am I getting warm? A double cross by history's most reliable liar.

And what for? Power, glorious power.

Loki: I'm going to overthrow the Time-Keepers. And, uh, cards on the table, I could use a qualified lieutenant.

Loki: Oh, yeah? What about you? Your years-in-the-making plan was to tear the place down, create the ultimate power vacuum, and then just walk away. I'd never have done that.

Nothing of what happened on this episode changed what the “Loki” series claimed to be Loki’s character prior to the “Loki” series. At the end of it he’s cooperating with someone more powerful than him so that he could betray him and take the power from him, which is how this series claimed all the Lokis (except Sylvie) were.

There’s no change.

There could have been, what happened in episode 1 could have worked for Loki in the same way it worked for Tony Stark but it didn’t. The authors even stated that his friendship with Mobius started in episode 2, not in episode 1, likely when Loki believed Mobius was sticking out his neck for him and offering him his sympathy.

Loki: Okay. Why are you in there sticking your neck out for me? Mobius: I'll give you two options, and you can believe whichever one you want. A, because I see a scared little boy, shivering in the cold. And you kinda feel bad for that ice runt. Or B, I just wanna catch this guy, and I'll tell you whatever I need to tell you. Loki: I don't need your sympathy.

So we’ve a problem.

The authors rambled more often than not on how much episode 1 changed Loki, how what they called ‘Mobius’ therapy session’ was good for him… but failed to show it in a way that would make sense with the settings set by the series.

If the series states Loki is one who, prior to arriving to the TVA, was used to cooperate when intended on wooing someone powerful he intends to betray and ends with him being willing to cooperate with the TVA after discovering it’s powerful so that he can betray it later, we go exactly back to the starting point. There’s no change, not in this episode.

His words about not enjoying to hurt people but it being merely a play feel like a forced admission of a truth he couldn’t possibly not know and his admission of being a villain isn’t followed by any genuine attempt at changing something in himself. He just acknowledged the role the TVA wanted on him… because he’s trying to woo them so that he could betray them later on.

If we want to stretch things A LOT we might assume seeing Frigga’s death worked for him in the way being told Odin died worked for Thor in “Thor”. It made him more determinate to protect the person he loved, a.k.a. Sylvie… but it stands up poorly, in part because Loki completely forget Frigga, and how she’s going to die in the TVA approved timeline, in part because, although the Loki and Sylvie love story has cute moments that make you wish you could root for them, in truth that too is poorly constructed, with Loki falling for Sylvie for hazy reasons in less than 12 hours (according to the series because she doesn’t want glorious power, according to the authors because she’s a female variant of himself), in part because… well, it doesn’t really feel consequential, it feels more like it’s me forcing such reading because I’ve heard over and over that what happened in episode 1 is supposed to matter, it’s supposed to have changed Loki somehow and so I’m grasping at straws to fit it in the story when it’s actually just forgotten.

So, the real problem is that the series doesn���t bother showing us Loki changing as a direct consequence of what happened in episode 1 in a way that’s relevant and directly consequential.

Sure, it made many happy to have Loki confirm out loud what many in the fandom already figured out, how he doesn’t enjoy hurting people, that it’s all a play.

Sure, it seems self reflection to have him admit he was a villain.

Sure, since many were deluded into thinking the people at the TVA were on the good side, it might feel like an improvement to see Loki agree to side with them.

Sure, the episode, with its parallelisms to what happened with Tony Stark, made us hope it would lead Loki to ultimately do like him.

But when all is said and done, if you look at the scenes in contest and then watch the following episodes, none of this goes anywhere and it couldn’t go anywhere.

We know originally episode 1 was planned to be very different and end just the same, with Loki accepting to cooperate with the TVA. This means the only things that were relevant in the plot that had to be in episode 1 for the series to work were Loki being captured by the TVA, being forced to acknowledge its power and accepting to work with it.

The so called and overly incensed ‘Mobius therapy session’ wasn’t something so fundamental to the plot the story NEEDED it to work and, ultimately, the story forgot it, to focus on Sylvie and on how SHE was the one who changed Loki (as well as Mobius, albeit Mobius changed him in a smaller measure) turning what happened in episode 1 into some sort of ‘Eastern egg’ for who needed to have his mind refreshed on what happened in the other movies in which Loki starred, albeit as the scenes are decontextualized, if you don’t remember well the movies, you’ll end up drawing the wrong conclusion.

It’s sad because Tom Hiddleston’s performance as he watched those scenes was great, possibly the best in the whole series, I mean I heard plenty of people who totally felt for Loki, me as well, because his pain was so raw, so palpable, and this episode just had this BEYOND HUGE amount of potential to turn Loki into another Iron Man… so it’s so very sad to see that in the end it was all dissipated like a soap bubble, never used so that Mobius and Sylvie could be the ones to cause the change in Loki. Which yes, it’s understandable as the story wanted to give them more relevance but feels like a complete waste of an otherwise good opportunity to have Loki decide for himself, due to what he had learnt, a different course in his life.

But whatever, that’s it. Sad, a waste, but that’s the story they decided to tell us, so it comes to no surprise some weren’t sold there was character development here, while they were willing to buy it in “Iron Man”. The story just didn’t build up on what happened in episode 1; it used it like a filler.

Of course though, people can have other reasons than the ones I’ve listed not to see character development. I can’t speak for everyone who didn’t see it… but I’ll say the ones I listed still could work for many.

Lastly, it’s worth to remark this doesn’t mean episode 1 isn’t enjoyable... it is. Hiddleston’s performance is so damn awesome I’ll never get tired to remark it, Wilson does great and this episode brims with potential. But the sad thing is that it remains unfulfilled, episode 1 just doesn’t deliver what he seems to promise, a change in Loki.

[lokiodinsonofasgard000]

Chapter 4

Chapter 4: Mobius M. Mobius

Prologue:

The man in the suit walked a bit ahead of them as they trailed behind “They offer you a position to work with them?” Loki asked looking ahead with a low voice “Affirmative. I'm assuming you also?” (Name) asked in a low voice also “Mmhmm… however, something doesn’t feel right about this place” Loki confessed.

They continued to walk and (Name) too the time to look him up and down and held an amused smile, Loki arched a brow and looked at her “What’s so funny?” “Nothing just odd to see you in that. You look so normal, granted a prisoner uniform of sorts. But so normal” she chuckled “I mean you’re a quote on quote “god” so seeing you so ordinary is just odd that’s all” “Keep amusing yourself darling” he said rolling his eyes at her “In all fairness miss the whole god like Asgardian attire” she mocked lightly. Loki gave her a small smile then smirked “won’t change the fact I could kill you right now if it were for this suppressor” “So you are just an ordinary man, give or take 5,000 years?” “I am not that old. I’m 1,048” Loki exclaimed, almost offended.

They finally arrived at this large door. Walking in it was a conference room with a large oval table. Loki and (Name) shared a look with one another  as the man in the suit asked them to take a seat, the two prisoners sat side by side “Now let me understand something. Looking through your personal files there’s no mentions of you two ever meeting. However it’s a little tricky with multiple timelines that had recently been created…” spoke the man “Sorry to interject just now but. What even is your name?” (Name) asked him “Oh my apologizes Mobius M. Mobius” he introduced himself before getting back to talking “so I want to know the chemistry you both displayed before you capture...it’s unheard of, unforeseeable” “With all due respect agent M. but when two people are in life or death situations it is natural to try and work together and get out hopefully alive.” (Name) held her expressionless look “Well say what you like but there was chemistry no doubt.”  Mobius shrugged “The idea is that we have you both work for us, (Name) would serve as more of a babysitter for you, Loki. Your reputation is known to be wavering on your alliances, and proved so in your possible futures?” “I beg your pardon?” Loki asked now engaging in the conversation and a bit offended of the suggestion of him needing a babysitter.

“If you look at this hologram projector this was you up till now, 2012. Captured by the avengers and was to be taken to your location point; for Odin’s judgment back on your home world, Asgard. However, 2018 from 2023… things go downhill from 2018 onward” Mobius spoke with grim in his voice.

Both Loki and (Name) watch Loki’s original future unfold. Loki being sent to life imprisonment, the Almother dying protecting Thor’s girlfriend, Jane. Loki’s first ‘death’ as he takes over Asgard; send Odin onto Midgard in a retirement home. Thor and Loki get Odin, but the Alfather dies. They find out they have a sister, goddess of death, Hela. The day of Ragnarok and the end of Asgard and lastly Loki’s second and final death, by Thanos’ hands- “The sun will shine on us again, brother-”

“That’s enough!” (Name) slammed her hands on the desk.

Loki stared at her in confusion. Although it was a hard pill to swallow to know he lost so much and despite trying to redeem himself it was short lived. But the death of his mother was the most effective one. Loki for once was silent. “That’s enough! You claim to hold balance and here you are showing him his ‘true’ future!” she yelled “the repercussions are absolute! Showing his future he will now try to prevent it as soon as you allow him to step foot out!” “Now agent (Name). Loki’s death is in a way a fixed point. It needs to happen. He is one of the biggest threats of the T.V.A and the multiverse time continuum. As long as Loki ceases to exist in 2018 it does not matter what time, day or location all that matters is that he is dead” Mobius explained calmly “That’s obscured! Granted Loki is dangerous, but surely he was shown to change his ways. In the end he chose to save his people of Asgard-” “He gave Thanos the space infinity stone!” Mobius spoke with a raised voice “To save his people!” (Name) snapped

Loki watched as this Midgardian woman fought for his future self. It shocked him, although aware that in this moment; he was not that person that had redeemed himself. But seeing someone genuinely fight for him brought a sense of warmth that he felt from only his mother. “So let me get this straight Mr. Mobius. If I take your proposition and conditions, you will have me get rid of other threats to the multiverse timeline, that is too hard to do yourselves. Inevitably after that you’d send me back to my time of 2012, to follow the said script and die of Thanos’ hand...and if I don’t I’d be a wanted man” Silence (Name) gave Loki an exacerbated look which he returned a look to tell her to trust him. Clenching her jaw tight she sat back down “More or less...but there is a catch” “Go on” (Name) hissed out “Well the end game is that you both kill Thanos… before he collects the stones but we would still have to kill you in 2018”

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“Here are you. Your uniforms” Mobius spoke, handing them both a pile of clothing “before you get changed and we take off the restraints we do need to do one little procedure...follow me” Loki and (Name) walk with Mobius and walk into what looked like a medical bay. The two weren’t sure but they were seated in these chairs and automatic metal restraints came up. The two started to struggle in their seat “We already said we join this stupid organization” snapped Loki “Oh we know. But we need to put a space and time GPS bio-implant to make sure to track both of your whereabouts at all time... through time and space” Mobius explained as two people in white walked over to them and started to inject some kind of thing in their forearms.

Once the whole procedure was done the two changed into their uniforms in their separate change rooms while Mobius waited for them outside. When they finished up and in their new uniform; khaki trousers, blue button up and a dark navy tie and black closed shoes. Loki was wearing a T.V.A tan coat while (Name)’s was being tied around her waist as she rolled up her sleeves “The trousers are hideous” (Name) mumbled out “Agreed” Loki said quietly, giving a small smile. She looked at him with a raised brow. She wasn’t sure why he was smiling ‘he’s planning something’ she thought. She looked to Mobius as he started to show them around the compound. (Name) was emotionless as she was lost in thought until she hear Loki’s smooth voice “You remind me of someone back on Asgard” Loki quietly “Hopefully not a lover of yours. Wouldn’t want to damage your ego when I turn you down” she said half jokingly “Oh gods no, she is a very strong warrior” Loki chuckled “and don’t flatter yourself, I would never stoop so low to fall for some Midgardian wench” “I’ll ignore that last part. I’m surprised honestly, from what Asgard has been described and what has been on your file Asgard seems so medievalesque. So I’m surprised a woman would be allowed to fight. Given the whole prim and proper attitudes” she said rather casually. Loki stared at her a little baffled by her sudden friendly and casual attitude “It’s not common but is accepted we- people of Asgard tend to overlook gender and focus on your abilities as an individual.” (Name) took notice of his hesitation and frowned lightly. Their conversation fell for a moment. “Your file says Asgardian. You were raised as any other Asgardian, jötunn or not you are Asgardian.”  (Name) said with a small shrug “but what do I know, I am just a Midgardian”

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Chapter 5: Day One Begins

[iamanartichoke]

What are your thoughts on Loki and Jane Foster?

I was going to say I don't really have any, lmao, but I suppose I do - and, not to be That Person who quotes their own fic incessantly but I wrote about Loki's feelings for Jane from his perspective in my fic series and I think I explained it better narratively than I'm able to meta-ly, bc it's what I keep coming back to in order to try to respond to this.

Under the cut bc long.

"Tell me, brother - are your objections because of the humans having access, or because of your feelings toward Jane?" "What, exactly, are my feelings toward Jane?" Loki asked archly. Thor shrugged. "You tell me." Loki opened his mouth, and then closed it again. His feelings regarding Jane were complicated. For a long time, he’d resented her for taking Thor away, for changing Thor in all the ways Loki couldn’t. Thor had been banished for his own foolish hotheadedness; he’d returned worthy of the throne, but he’d also returned ready and willing to strike Loki down. Jane was the catalyst that had pushed Thor over the edge into the sanctimonious heroism he’d used as justification to turn on Loki and destroy Loki’s plans to prove himself a worthy son - a worthy king - to Odin. It left a bitter taste in Loki’s mouth when he thought of it. Yet even he had to concede that he could move past it, theoretically. He had changed much since then, and he could see now that Thor had not been entirely wrong in his actions. It was as Brunnhilde said: they’d all made terrible choices, including Loki. Loki didn’t hold a grudge for those events. Not much of one, anyway. But then there had been the Aether. Malekith. Frigga. Loki knew that Jane wasn’t responsible for Frigga’s death. He knew that. Jane had been as unfortunate a bystander as the rest of them - she’d been in the wrong place at the wrong time, that was all. And yet … knowing something intellectually was not the same as accepting it emotionally. Loki associated Jane too strongly with the darkest point in his life - his imprisonment, his alienation from Thor, his mother’s death, his own sacrifice. It was impossible to think of Jane Foster and not remember how utterly wrecked Loki had been then. Thinking of her triggered memories Loki would much rather forget and, truth be told, it had been a relief to learn that she'd dumped Thor. It meant that Loki would never have to see her again. Until now, it would seem. "Loki?" Loki shook his head, as if to clear it. He brought himself back to the present. "I have nothing against Jane personally. I just … don’t particularly care for her, is all.”

^^ In a nutshell, that's pretty much how I feel. I interpet Loki's feelings toward Jane to be very complicated, in that objectively there's nothing wrong with her and he can even recognize that she's brilliant and was able to be a good influence on his brother when literally no one else in the Nine Realms could (not that he's bitter about that, or anything, he was only Thor's brother and best friend, nbd). I think he recognizes that she has a kind heart, and that his grudge against her in Thor 1 has more to do with his own feelings and his own relationship with Thor than it does with Jane personally.

Yet at the same time, Jane always just seems to be in the wrong place at the wrong time for Loki. He associates her with Thor's transformation into Not An Asshole and resents it due to how Thor then turned on Loki (in Loki's perspective, and kinda narratively too but that's another topic). More significantly, he associates her very strongly with the events of TDW and with his mother's death. As he says, intellectually he can separate her from Frigga's death and recognize that it wasn't her fault but, emotionally, I think that he blames her at least a little bit, bc had she not been screwing around with the Aether (his words), she wouldn't have ended up needing protection in Asgard, and Frigga would probably still be alive.

And I don't think that's something that he'll ever be able to come to terms with without doing a lot of heavy emotional labor (therapy, if you will) and, to him, it's easier to just ignore it and plan to never see Jane again. (Which doesn't work out so well in my fic but, yknow, there we are.)

Jumping off of that point a little bit, though, it's funny (strange) that "Frigga's death is Loki's fault" has become such a topic of wank since the series, bc not only did I never feel that it was Loki's fault but I also never felt he blamed himself entirely, either. To an extent, certainly, bc that just be who he is, but I think that he also blames Jane (^^) and he also blames Thor (for not being able to save her; it's very much a what good is all your worthiness, your might, your power if you couldn't save the one person who mattered?)- so, like, I always headcanoned that Loki felt he shared the blame at the very least, not that he would take it all upon himself.

Which makes it weird to discover just how much of the fandom does think Loki's at fault for Frigga's death, enough to argue for the justification of Mobius's line in episode 1, or at the very least believe that he blames himself and himself alone. I just don't think that was ever the case, but that's just me personally.

(As an aside, though, I will never forgive "just like you killed your mother" as a line, the same way I will never forgive "your birthright was to die" - some things can't be taken back, but also neither of those two narratives even attempted to try to take it back so, like, fuck Loki I guess.)

I'm rambling at this point but, yeah, basically these are my thoughts on Loki and Jane Foster. I also think that they had more sexual/romantic tension than Thor did with Jane, and I read an amazing fic called Icarus (WIP and unfinished, but what's there is very much worth reading) which is one of the only fics where I not only bought but was invested in Lokane as a ship - but, aside from that, yeah, I don't really have too much to say about them, as you can tell.

Ask me meta things.